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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Teste, n&atilde;o me s&atilde;o devolvidos os meus
      post porqu&ecirc;?<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">73 Gomes op: CT1HIX
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ct1hix.webs.com">www.ct1hix.webs.com</a></pre>
      Em 25-09-2012 21:38, Renato Encarna&ccedil;&atilde;o escreveu:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAFgE6BJm87VGBMmOLqUYOrWm_0ti1mn6USXc3yw1xwMPWeB1WA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Pois.
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Mas a&iacute; &eacute; que est&aacute; a beleza da quest&atilde;o!</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>&Eacute; que nada obriga a que a antena se apresente como uma carga
        de 50 ohm!!</div>
      <div>Pode ficar l&aacute; perto, n&atilde;o pode? V&aacute;, nos 55 ou nos 45 ohm...</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Seguindo os manuais da ICOM, os andares finais dos r&aacute;dios
        deles ficam satisfeitos com um VSWR menor que 1.5:1. Em termos
        "acad&eacute;micos", podia admitir que este valor "limita" a largura de
        banda da antena, "por defini&ccedil;&atilde;o".</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Isto d&aacute; uma gama de imped&acirc;ncias entre 37,5 ohm e 75 ohm.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Se a antena ficar com um valor de Z ali no meio, tanto
        melhor, nem me ma&ccedil;o mais.</div>
      <div>Claro que me interessa que fique pr&oacute;xima de 50 ohm.</div>
      <div>Mas para isso serve o alicate de corte...</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Terminando, e para refrescar algumas cabe&ccedil;as quentes: a
        teoria, a exactid&atilde;o e a precis&atilde;o s&atilde;o muito bonitas, mas no que
        toca a antenas, a teoria s&oacute; explica o funcionamento delas, e os
        modelos te&oacute;ricos s&oacute; servem para condi&ccedil;&otilde;es ideais, onde se pode
        prever uma (quase sempre m&aacute;) aproxima&ccedil;&atilde;o dos par&acirc;metros actuais
        da antena.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Vejamos:</div>
      <div>- As equa&ccedil;&otilde;es de Maxwell para o electromagnetismo referem-se
        indirectamente &agrave; constante diel&eacute;ctrica e &agrave; permeabilidade
        magn&eacute;tica do v&aacute;cuo. No ar s&atilde;o um pouco diferentes, mas
        consideram-se iguais.</div>
      <div>- Devido ao ponto anterior, a imped&acirc;ncia caracter&iacute;stica do
        meio aereo (raiz quadrada da permeabilidade magn&eacute;tica a dividir
        pela constante diel&eacute;ctrica do ar) varia constantemente.</div>
      <div>- Consideram-se condutores perfeitos (resistividade zero) e
        diel&eacute;ctricos tamb&eacute;m perfeitos (condutividade zero).</div>
      <div>- Considera-se um espa&ccedil;o diel&eacute;ctrico infinito (um pouco
        diferente aqui na Terra...)</div>
      <div>- entre outros aspectos...</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>S&oacute; em antenas de dimens&otilde;es pequenas (para cima dos GHz) &eacute; que
        as aproxima&ccedil;&otilde;es te&oacute;ricas elaboradas por programas NEC s&atilde;o boas.
        Para antenas grandes, de HF, s&atilde;o uma perda de tempo, acreditai.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Se um dipolo de 80m trabalhar bem no vosso QTH, montado na
        casa do vizinho, montado da mesma maneira, &agrave; mesma altura e tudo
        quase igual, fica completamente diferente.</div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>73 es GL de CS7ABR</div>
      <div>Renato</div>
      <div><br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">No dia 25 de Setembro de 2012 19:58, <span
            dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:ct1hix@sapo.pt" target="_blank">ct1hix@sapo.pt</a>&gt;</span>
          escreveu:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px">
              <p>Boas<br>
                Nesse caso n&atilde;o...<br>
                Mas existe uma enorme variedade de RG&acute;s 59 no mercado,
                com caracteristicas bastante diferentes, que podem fazer
                a diferen&ccedil;a entre sair um transformador de Z de 2:1 e
                outra coisa qualquer.<br>
                <br>
              </p>
              <div>
                <div class="h5">
                  <div>Gomes op. CT1HIX<br>
                    <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://www.ct1hix.webs.com/" target="_blank">http://www.ct1hix.webs.com/</a></div>
                  <p>Quoting Renato Encarna&ccedil;&atilde;o &lt;<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ct7abr@gmail.com" target="_blank">ct7abr@gmail.com</a>&gt;:</p>
                  <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
                    blue;margin-left:8px;padding-left:8px" type="cite">
                    <p>Bem...</p>
                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                    <div>N&atilde;o &eacute; critico no sentido de ser, vejamos, 0.66,
                      ou 0.65, ou 0.64.</div>
                    <div>Ou seja, a toler&acirc;ncia das caracter&iacute;sticas dos
                      cabos.</div>
                    <div>&nbsp;</div>
                    <div>73, Renato<br>
                      <br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">No dia 25 de Setembro de
                        2012 19:49, <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:ct1hix@sapo.pt" target="_blank">ct1hix@sapo.pt</a>&gt;</span>
                        escreveu:<br>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0
                          0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                          solid;padding-left:1ex">
                          <div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:12px">
                            <p>Boas<br>
                              N&atilde;o &eacute; critico?<br>
                              Se n&atilde;o me enganei nas contas usar um cabo
                              com factor de velocidade de 0,66 ou um de
                              0,82 d&aacute; uma diferen&ccedil;a em 80 metros de
                              cerca de4 metros. N&atilde;o me parece que seja
                              assim t&atilde;o pouco...<br>
                              &nbsp;</p>
                            <div>Gomes op. CT1HIX<br>
                              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://www.ct1hix.webs.com/"
                                target="_blank">http://www.ct1hix.webs.com/</a></div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p>Quoting Renato Encarna&ccedil;&atilde;o &lt;<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:ct7abr@gmail.com"
                                    target="_blank">ct7abr@gmail.com</a>&gt;:</p>
                                <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
                                  blue;margin-left:8px;padding-left:8px"
                                  type="cite">
                                  <p>Boas.</p>
                                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                  <div>Agora, boas not&iacute;cias. Isso s&oacute; &eacute;
                                    muito cr&iacute;tico quando se fala de
                                    frequ&ecirc;ncias altas.</div>
                                  <div>Para HF, vai ver que mais
                                    cent&iacute;metro ou menos centimetro, n&atilde;o
                                    faz diferen&ccedil;a nenhuma.</div>
                                  <div>&nbsp;</div>
                                  <div>73, Renato<br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">No dia 25
                                      de Setembro de 2012 14:56, Jo&atilde;o
                                      Gon&ccedil;alves Costa <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:joao.a.costa@ctt.pt"
                                          target="_blank">joao.a.costa@ctt.pt</a>&gt;</span>
                                      escreveu:<br>
                                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <p>Por experiencia pr&oacute;pria, pois
                                          a coisa varia mesmo dentro da
                                          mesma marca e referencia do
                                          cabo coaxial , o melhor mesmo
                                          &eacute; determinar o fator de
                                          velocidade atrav&eacute;s de um
                                          analisador de antenas.<br>
                                          <br>
                                          O fator de velocidade do cabo
                                          coaxial depende da constante
                                          diel&eacute;trica do isolante usado
                                          para separar o condutor
                                          interno da blindagem,
                                          (infelizmente estes,
                                          diel&eacute;trico; condutor interno e
                                          blindagem, variam as suas
                                          caracter&iacute;sticas com o passar
                                          do tempo) &nbsp;e corresponde &agrave;
                                          raz&atilde;o entre a velocidade com a
                                          qual a energia el&eacute;trica
                                          circula nesse cabo e a
                                          velocidade da luz no ar. &nbsp;Os
                                          fatores de velocidade mais
                                          comuns para cabos coaxiais
                                          s&atilde;o: 0,66 em cabos com
                                          isolamento a polietileno, e
                                          0,82 em cabos com polietileno
                                          expandido. Na linha aberta ou
                                          fita este variam entre 0,85 e
                                          0,95.</p>
                                        <div><br>
                                          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
                                          _\\|//_<br>
                                          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;( o
                                          o )<br>
&nbsp;------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo------------<br>
                                          &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 73 de:<br>
                                          &nbsp;
                                          ************************************<br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;CT1FBF / Jo&atilde;o Gon&ccedil;alves
                                          Costa<br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;QTH Locator : IM58kq<br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;CQ Zone: 14 &nbsp;/ &nbsp;ITU Zone:
                                          37<br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;E-mail and Address, see
                                          in:<br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="http://www.qrz.com"
                                            target="_blank">www.qrz.com</a><br>
                                          &nbsp; * &nbsp;QSL Card via Eqsl: <a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            href="http://www.eqsl.cc"
                                            target="_blank">www.eqsl.cc</a><br>
                                          &nbsp;
                                          **************************************<br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          <br>
                                          &nbsp;</div>
                                        De: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:cluster-bounces@radio-amador.net"
                                          target="_blank">cluster-bounces@radio-amador.net</a>
                                        [mailto:<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:cluster-bounces@radio-amador.net"
                                          target="_blank">cluster-bounces@radio-amador.net</a>]
                                        Em nome de Gomes<br>
                                        Enviada: ter&ccedil;a-feira, 25 de
                                        Setembro de 2012 12:19<br>
                                        Para: Resumo Noticioso
                                        ARLA/CLUSTER<br>
                                        Assunto: Re: ARLA/CLUSTER:
                                        F&oacute;rmula Delta Loop em metros<br>
                                        <div>
                                          <div><br>
                                            Boas<br>
                                            Uma tabela com alguns cabos
                                            em <a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="http://py2mok.tripod.com/leo-tabela.htm"
                                              target="_blank">http://py2mok.tripod.com/leo-tabela.htm</a><br>
                                            D&aacute; para ter uma ideia.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            73 Gomes op: CT1HIX<br>
                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="http://www.ct1hix.webs.com"
                                              target="_blank">www.ct1hix.webs.com</a><br>
                                            Em <a
                                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                                              href="tel:24-09-2012%2020"
                                              value="+12409201220"
                                              target="_blank">24-09-2012
                                              20</a>:46, Renato
                                            Encarna&ccedil;&atilde;o escreveu:<br>
                                            Aten&ccedil;&atilde;o &agrave;s linhas abertas,
                                            elas radiam se estiverem
                                            desequilibradas.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            E aten&ccedil;&atilde;o tamb&eacute;m ao factor
                                            de velocidade, o factor 0,66
                                            corresponde a um cabo
                                            coaxial COM DIEL&Eacute;CTRICO A
                                            POLYESTER!! (RG58, 59, 213
                                            barato).<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Diferentes diel&eacute;ctricos
                                            ter&atilde;o diferentes factores de
                                            velocidade.<br>
                                            Se for "polyester foam", por
                                            exemplo, j&aacute; &eacute; perto dos 0,80
                                            , n&atilde;o sei ao certo.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            Uma linha aberta tem factor
                                            de velocidade pr&oacute;ximo de 1.<br>
                                            <br>
                                            73, Renato<br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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                                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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                                              target="_blank">http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster</a><br>
                                            <br>
                                            <br>
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                                              href="mailto:CLUSTER@radio-amador.net"
                                              target="_blank">CLUSTER@radio-amador.net</a><br>
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                                              href="http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster"
                                              target="_blank">http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster</a></div>
                                        </div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                                <p><br>
                                  &nbsp;</p>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                          CLUSTER mailing list<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:CLUSTER@radio-amador.net"
                            target="_blank">CLUSTER@radio-amador.net</a><br>
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                            href="http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster"
                            target="_blank">http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster</a><br>
                          &nbsp;</blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </blockquote>
                  <p><br>
                    <br>
                  </p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <br>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            CLUSTER mailing list<br>
            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:CLUSTER@radio-amador.net">CLUSTER@radio-amador.net</a><br>
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              href="http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster"
              target="_blank">http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
      </div>
      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
CLUSTER mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:CLUSTER@radio-amador.net">CLUSTER@radio-amador.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster">http://radio-amador.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cluster</a>
</pre>
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